Feature Request: Move the tutorial patches back into Max for ease of use.
Hi,
I rarely use the tutorials in my own works, but use them a lot to help beginner Max users understand new concepts.
In Max 9 the Tutorials have been moved online. This is a problem if you work offline. But what is worse is that the tutorial patches have been moved. Inside the tutorials you must select "Download Series Assets", and then unzip "Max Tutorials.zip". Inside the tutorials, it says which patch to use. For instance in "Tutorial 1: Hello", it says "This tutorial references the patcher 01mHello.maxpat". You then go to the folder that you downloaded, search for "01mHello.maxpat", and open that patch.
In Max 8 you just press "Open Tutorial" inside Max, and the patch opens.
Is it possible for Cycling74 to move the tutorial patches back into Max for ease of use?
oh wow, just noticed this.
The tutorials are essential for when people want to go from just a YouTube browsing level of knowledge about these tools, to a masterful practice with these tools(therefore, quick and direct access to the patches right there within the environment is essential to the fluidity with which one obtains mastery at that practice).
I agree with the OP, NOTAM NOTAM, and think Cycling74 should seriously reconsider this decision.
we can evolve faster if developers go more in the direction of creating an immersive learning experience right there within the environment, rather than splitting it up into compartmentalized experiences; software-development likes it this way: creating templates and classes and compartmentalizing everything, but artistry and humanity requires something of a compromised approach to make it more personal/individualized. (sorry to speak so passionately, i leave it at that)
i agree. I mentioned this in the discord as well. When I was first learning Max, having the tutorial patches built in was really something special. It contributed a lot to the flow of learning. I've been kind of hoping that this is just a temporary thing that was required to get Max 9 out the door with the new documentation and maybe they're working on bringing it back in. I have no proof of this though.
Thank you for posting.
I agree 100% to the above mentioned points and honestly do struggle with large portions of the references having been moved online as well since I mostly work (and would prefer to work) offline.
Amid a ubiquitous transgression into clouds I would be very, very grateful if at least Max could stay local. I am expecting one of the next upgrades to announce that Max has gone entirely online!.…
Please, I implore you — the fantastic makers and developers of this application — to seriously consider the multitude of advantages when working independently, and offline, as well as the disadvantages for users. Besides, I don't have internet everywhere I go and I am quite happy to keep it this way.
Thank you for considering and again, for posting.
I, too agree 100% to the above mentioned points. I have severe Eyesight problems.
First I was delighted that the tutorials moved online, because reading them in versions prior to Max9 was a drag because I couldn't scale the fonts so that I could read them.
Now I can read them but downloading the patches opening and moving them is annoying.
Maybe I am missing sth
I completely agree with 'tW∆s ∆lienz, Exit Only, Oni Shogun, and mheton. Sometimes people prefer to work offline, or do not have access to the internet. These changes disrupts the flow of learning, especially for new users.
Sam addresses tutorials as well as other documentation.
Worth the watch/listen
that video is definitely illuminating towards the motivations around the move. Obviously a lot of great work has been done here. It's great that they solved some of the issues around information being spread out in different formats. Kudos for that. It sounds like Sam is open to and has some ideas for solutions around making it easier to access the patches so hopefully that comes in the future. I could see scenario where maybe Max could check to see if the documentation is up to date and alert the user to pull in the updates or something like that. I know these things are easier said than done though.
...and, coincidentally, I quite often walk around the city these days (HCMC), enter restaurants, read through the entire menu, then leave.
Thanks Sam for shedding light!
tutorials should be a package. as optional download, so that it already teaches you about downloading packages.
Oooh that's a nice idea Roman. And it would allow C74 to frequently push updates to it without updating the app (as it was stated to be an issue in the video), and us to keep them up-to-date easily without having to re-download them in case some bug sneaked in.
Maybe that could become a problem if that tutorials section tend to grow a lot and frequently. Not sure if I would enjoy having a +1GB package being updated every week for example. But we're far from that for now.
If you watch Sam said. NONE of Max, MSP, or jitter tutorials changed or updated for Max 9. Only new tutorials added - mostly Jit.geom
Raising question about why move them at all if no updates?
//
TFL/Roman - package for each?
Max.tut package
MSP.tut package
Jitter.tut package
Etc…
a single bundle i think, because of cross references. peek~ / jit.peek~
I just watched the Max 9 Documentation video, and although there are many good arguments for doing it this way, opening the tutorial patches should just be a one click operation within the tutorial. Making it simple is especially important for beginners.
There is also something to be said for having an offline version of the tutorials. Max is used in places without an internet connection every day.
Most of the basic Max and MSP tutorials have been the same for over 20 years, so they do not need constant updating.
Hey everyone, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and reactions here. I just wanted to say that we're hearing your feedback, and that we're still actively working to improve the whole documentation experience. We overhauled docs for Max 9 specifically so that we'd be able to iterate quickly, update features, and continue to develop new experiences. I can't say what specifically we're working on now, but your ideas are very much appreciated as we navigate the next steps here.